The Heavy Duty Parts Report
Each week Jamie Irvine and his guests have conversations that empower heavy-duty people. They discuss tips, tools, and technology that help heavy-duty parts manufacturers and distributors sell the right parts to fleets, repair shops, and truck operators.
The Heavy Duty Parts Report
Good For the Economy AND the Environment?
Episode 331: When you run a heavy-duty parts and service business you are often faced with decisions where you have to weigh two competing things and make tough decisions. The trucking industry faces this on a national level. With so many new environmental regulations coming in, can the heavy-duty industry really come up with new technologies and products that are good for the economy AND the environment?
The refrigerant industry is facing this right now. Our featured guest, Adam Kimmel from Orbia, demonstrates the innovation required to find solutions that meet competing needs. He also discusses how their refrigerant brand Koura is meeting the environmental benchmarks without compromising performance.
Show Notes: Visit HeavyDutyPartsReport.com for complete show notes of this episode and to subscribe to all our content.
Sponsors of this Episode
Heavy Duty Consulting Corporation: Find out how many “fault codes” your heavy-duty parts business has. Meet with us today. Visit HeavyDutyConsulting.com
Hengst Filtration: There's a new premium filter option for fleets. If you're responsible for a fleet, you won't believe how much using Hengst filters will save you. But you've got to go to HeavyDutyPartsReport.com/Hengst to find out how much.
Diesel Laptops: Diesel Laptops is so much more than just a provider of diagnostic tools. They’re your shop efficiency solution company. Learn more about everything Diesel Laptops can do for you today by visiting DieselLaptops.com today.
HDA Truck Pride: They’re the heart of the independent parts and service channel. They have 750 parts stores and 450 service centers conveniently located across the US and Canada. Visit HeavyDutyPartsReport.com/HDATruckPride today to find a location near you.
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You're listening to the Heavy-Duty Parts Report. I'm your host, jamie Irvin, and this is the place where we have conversations that empower heavy-duty people. Welcome to another episode of the Heavy-Duty Parts Report. I'm your host, jamie Irvin. In this episode, we're going to talk about how, when you run a heavy-duty parts and or service business, you're often faced with tough decisions where you have different competing things that you have to try to sort through, and we're going to talk about how many of our clients run into that and how they deal with it. We're also going to talk about how the trucking industry as a whole continues to face these kinds of situations where you have competing things with different needs going head to head. So, for example, when we look at environmental regulations against the needs of both the economy and the financial needs of the trucking company, sometimes those things are at odds. So how do you deal with that? Our interview talks specifically about what's happening in the refrigerant side of the business and we're going to look at their innovations and how they're handling those two competing needs. We're going to round out our conversation with another edition of that's Not Heavy Duty, where we're going to talk about a trucking company that really failed to balance these needs, made the wrong choice and now it is causing a lot of problems. So let's get started. So the question about the environment or the economy makes me think about how many times in business we are faced with different choices that have to be made, tough choices that have to be made, and we have to balance out two very, very different, competing things that are really at odds with one another, and somehow you have to find a balance point where you make the right decision but you still get the result that you're looking for.
Jamie Irvine:Now, when you look at your heavy duty business and many of the clients we have, when we talk to them, they're often dealing with competing things Like, for example, do we invest now or do we downsize? They might be looking at do we do traditional marketing or digital marketing. They might be looking at whether they sell only to B2B or if they also include another channel where they sell directly to the consumer in a B2C fashion. Again, these things kind of compete with one another for resources, time, energy and they produce different results and sometimes you can do a bit of both. Sometimes you have to make a hard decision and say, no, we're going to prioritize one over the other. When we're consulting with our clients, we work through a step-by-step evaluation to help people come to the right choice. So let's break down those three options Invest or downsize.
Jamie Irvine:We've experienced a freight recession in the trucking industry and a lot of our clients are down on part sales. They're down on service because the fleets are down. So at that point, when you see declining revenue, increasing costs, you reach an inflection point. Do we double down and invest in our current strategy and keep going, or do we decide to make some significant changes and maybe even downsize our operation? You can't usually do both. Usually this is a one or the other and you have to pick. Now you might be able to find ways to do a small amount of downsizing to conserve cash, while preserving the majority of your cash to continue to invest in the strategy. But again you're going to have to prioritize one decision or the other.
Jamie Irvine:The traditional and digital marketing scenario is one we run into a lot. People often have this view that this is a zero-sum game. Either we stick with our traditional marketing methods trade shows, print materials, things of that nature or we abandon all of that and go straight into a digital-only marketing strategy. The reality is, in this situation you can definitely do both, but you have to look at what gives you the best return on investment, because sometimes a 50 50 split means you don't have enough resources to do either option well, and so sometimes a 70 30 or an 80 20 split is the right way to go. The other thing about this particular situation is sometimes you have to do a bit of a sliding scale where today we're only going to put maybe 10% of our marketing budget towards digital, but next year it's going to be 20. The year after that it'll be 30, and we're going to try to grow the marketing budget as a whole. So there's different approaches that need to be taken.
Jamie Irvine:And finally, with that last example, b2b or B2C. This is a very difficult decision for a lot of manufacturers to make. If their distributors and dealerships are not giving them enough revenue, the temptation is to switch to a B2C model, but there is so many issues with that and it is almost impossible to navigate channel conflict successfully without losing some customers. Sometimes you can also spend a lot of money chasing end users and they don't buy from you either. So sometimes we're looking at the wrong thing. Maybe it's not an issue of the channel. It's an issue of product market fit, and so this is where having a real strategic mindset is so important.
Jamie Irvine:At the Heavy Duty Consulting Corporation, we help our clients through these kinds of decisions all the time. We use a very logic-based, methodical approach to help people and we give them a perspective, because you know, when you're in your business you're so close to it. That old expression of not being able to see the forest for the trees kind of applies, and for us we are able to bring a more dispassionate view. We are one step removed and we can look at things from a wider angle and give you perspective. So if you'd like to meet with our experts to talk about this, you can head over to heavydutypartsreportcom. In the top menu there's a consulting button. Press that button, it'll take you right through to our consulting website and you can book an appointment with us.
Jamie Irvine:Now, the trucking industry as a whole faces these kinds of decisions all the time. One such scenario where this decision really comes to the forefront is when you are trying to balance the environmental versus the economic needs of both the society at large and the economy at large, and also the individual needs of specific trucking companies. After the break, we're going to have an interview where we're going to discuss this in more detail, and our featured guest in this episode is a great example of how, if you take an innovative approach, you can sometimes solve these problems and bring something to the market that really satisfies both ends of the spectrum In this case, environmental and economics. So stay tuned, we're going to have a quick break and when we get back we'll share that interview with you.
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Jamie Irvine:We're back from the break. Okay, it's time for our featured guest interview. I'd like you to listen in as I talk to Orbia about their refrigerants. We're going to talk in this interview all about the changing regulations, the impact on the environment that some of the products that were used in the past had, the way things are going in the trucking industry and where we're headed in the near future, and how this innovative company has brought forth solutions that really help empower the trucking industry to achieve the environmental benchmark set by the regulations but, at the same time, maintain an economy of scale or the economics to support their business.
Jamie Irvine:My guest today is Adam Kimmel. He is the Senior Manager of Business Development at Orbia Now. Adam is an R&D and business development leader with over 20 years of experience in process design, product marketing, research and new product development in chemical and mechanical engineering. He leverages his experience to work with customers to implement the best thermal management solution for their applications. Now do you see why I wanted to have him on the show. Adam, welcome to the Heavy-Duty Parts Report. So glad to have you here.
Adam Kimmel:Jamie, pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.
Jamie Irvine:So let's talk a little bit about Orbia and what it really does for its customers. So just tell me a little bit about Orbia.
Adam Kimmel:Sure, I guess. Simply, orbia is seeking to advance life around the world. I mean, I think that's a noble goal that many companies have, and they do that through a lot of different ways. I mean, they view sustainability as central to everything we do. No innovation is worthwhile if it harms the environment, if you leave the earth in a worse spot than you found it for the pursuit of solving some nearer term problem. That doesn't align with who we want to be. So we look at it as how can we leverage sustainability not as a hurdle to clear but as a weapon in the arsenal to help the world and leave the earth in a better spot. So that's our holistic mission and Cora is our refrigerants brand. We have a floor and energy materials division that we call externally Cora, and so through the refrigerant end of things, that's where I come in.
Jamie Irvine:Okay, that makes a lot of sense. So let's talk about the customers that you serve in the trucking industry More so. So I'd like to know, like, who are they and what is the situation they find themselves in oftentimes when you, when you end up coming and talking to them yeah.
Adam Kimmel:So for the majority of my career, certainly there's been one product. It's been 134a. So it's easy. It's uh, how many trucks do you have? What's the charge size? You know kind of how much can we put you down for? It was a transaction.
Adam Kimmel:Now there's environmental regulations that are driving no pun intended a lot of different kinds of decisions, so it's a matter of all right. Well, you can't just use 134A because there isn't going to be enough. So, as a matter of fact, in January there was a phase down step where 30% of this carbon dioxide equivalent was stepped down, as they call it. So there's less carbon dioxide equivalent available, and what that means is refrigerants like 134A that have a higher global warming potential, which is kind of a measure at how much heat it can absorb. There's a limit to how much of that GWP you can consume, so there's a need all of a sudden for low GWP refrigerants that are going to be more compliant with these regulations.
Adam Kimmel:The problem heavy duty sees is because it's been so long. They're looking for answers and help here. I mean, this is a real problem. It's a problem worth solving, for sure, but a lot of folks aren't sure where to turn. What are the existing and available solutions and you know how do I learn about any nuances to the system that it's going to take to implement them?
Jamie Irvine:Yeah, and I think what a lot of people are concerned with is that, while we are trying to grapple with the impact we're having on our own environment, at the same time we don't want to destroy our economy, which, can be argued, has a negative impact on our environment as well, because the poorer people are, the more that often they turn to carbon producing things that are going to just make the problem worse. So, from a trucking perspective, you're looking at it and you're saying, okay, there's all these changes happening related to policies and certain mandates, and now, all of a sudden, I have to change my standard operating procedures with maintenance on my trucks, and so what is the potential economic impact that these kinds of heavy-duty trucking fleets face as they try to navigate this transition?
Adam Kimmel:Well, the cost is always going to be a constraint. It's going to be a new product. The supply chain isn't always going to be mature, so that's a Well, it may be, but that's a concern and a risk, I would say. So a lot of times folks can feel like, well, we're being sort of forced into a position to make us pay more, without really any ability to refute that. So I think some of the options become well, what if we fundamentally re-looked at what is the kind of material available?
Adam Kimmel:Is one single molecule going to be enough, or is there some combination or some other way of approaching this that will allow us to mitigate some socioeconomic pain while solving the problem? Can we have our cake and eat it too? And so I think changing the way people look and think about thermal management solutions and refrigerants in general is really an important piece, and education is the best way to do that. We've got to understand what are the levers, what are the constraints, and if one material can't do everything anymore, how can we combine these existing materials in a way that can deliver all the benefits we need?
Jamie Irvine:Let's go deep on this. I really want to hear more about the new options. Don't hold back. We got smart people listening to the show. We really want to gain a deeper level of understanding of what's going on in thermal management, and we want you to tell us. So feel free to go as deep as you want.
Adam Kimmel:Open the fire hose. Is that what I, what I'm hearing?
Jamie Irvine:yeah, let's find out what this is all about yeah.
Adam Kimmel:So at cora what we've, uh, concluded is that one material in fact can't do everything anymore. We see blends as the enabler of this iron triangle good, fast and cheap. Everybody you know when I was an early engineer I would get the older folks would come by and go well, you can have two and not three, and then you know for the next hour they'd walk me through the scenarios of each of those two. But with blends you can kind of say all right, well, we can design whatever performance we need to hit to make sure that it's parity, but ideally better. So for electrification you can design something that's higher efficiency, which helps with vehicle range, which is one of the critical performance criteria For fuel economy. It also is impactful as far as the cost position. What if we constructed groups of these materials, of commercially available building block refrigerants that are used in other industries? So a supply chain all of a sudden is protected. So from a fast standpoint, these are already a mature supply chain that we're putting together, blending and then using in a new application. So it's kind of a commercial, off-the-shelf product used in a customized way. You're getting the benefit of scale, economy and customization together and the biggest benefit then is the cost position potentially, because then you can use this commercial off-the-shelf approach to design blends that are more cost-effective. So you can decrease your cost position tens of percent or more potentially and have a higher performing, easy-to-access solution. So there are two primary blends that we use to do this. The first is 456A, so the way to think about it is it's a three component blend and the three components are 1234ZEE, 134a and R32. So the primary building block component is ZE, but it's 50% or 45% 134A. So it's sort of like we've given the industry the ability to wave a magic wand and half the amount of global warming impact with the same kg of refrigerant used, same performance. The cost is a question because of the evolving everything, but it's intended to be on the same order from a cost perspective. So you're getting the benefit of a lower GWP and sacrificing very little else. So that's been one that we've seen, especially in heavy duty.
Adam Kimmel:A ton of interest, and what I want to make sure people know about is they get constrained. One of the problems with high global warming materials is that these phase downs include all segments. So the residential HVAC segment consumes most of these with 410A. So all of a sudden the 410A demand is eating into quota that won't be available necessarily for mobile segments. So even if mobile does everything right, they still may not have access to as much of the quota as they want. So that's another nuance here that's important to know. So we want to give people the ability to pull a lever, get the same cooling and the same kgs of refrigerant used with a lower environmental impact.
Adam Kimmel:The newest one is really exciting. We launched both of these really last last fall, but 444A is a similar blend to 4568. So 444A is a ZE-based blend that has 152A and R32. So they're similar. There's just 134A in 456 and 152A in 444. But this is a direct replacement for 1234YF and so, in addition to the cost benefit that we are anticipating due to the building block materials, the performance is significantly higher. One of the biggest drawbacks that I've heard people that have used YF use is oh, there's a 5% to 10% performance degradation in some conditions, and so I would get this. I want my 10% back kind of comment. And so I would get this. I want my 10% back kind, which is huge again for electric vehicles and fuel economy. You're getting a performance benefit at a potentially lower cost position and it's a drop-in to YF systems, so it uses the same compressor, the same heat exchangers, the oils, all of the system architecture can be repurposed.
Jamie Irvine:So you're getting all the benefit with very, very little of the risk refrigerant performed over time, as engines aged, as vehicles were in service for, let's say, upwards of 10 or even 15 years. How do we know that the reformulation that you guys have done and have brought to market is going to, let's say, maintain the same kind of performance and not have any adverse effects when we push these vehicles out 7, 8, 9, 10 years?
Adam Kimmel:Well, like any new product, there's a robust validation NPD process that we go through. So, from a compatibility perspective, from a fleet testing perspective, there's accelerated testing that you can do to simulate end-of-life or intermediate to end-of-life conditions. We partner with our OEM customer partners to do this kind of testing and they themselves have an even more robust I would say Well, they're both very robust, put it that way but MPD process to where they put it through the paces of their specific application. So we're handing it to them with fully validated compatibility and some of the preliminary fleet testing results to give them confidence that the option is worth their time to test. And then they put it through the paces as an independent third party.
Adam Kimmel:So we don't have to go trust us. We've done the testing internally at our lab. It's here's our OEM partner that everyone would feel good and trust and make the results available. And then we can standardize this at SAE and other groups to say, well, here are some of the constraints. And okay, if it's a mild, flammable A2L, here's some of the considerations to maintain If there's a blend. Now you know, here are some of the things to consider and there'll be standards there to help frame that, to make sure that you know the guidance is there for those using it sure that the guidance is there for those using it.
Jamie Irvine:If I'm going to go with 456 or 444, can I just deplete my R134A supply and flip a switch and then, when that is depleted, I can switch over? I'm not going to have any compatibility issues. I can just keep running my fleet the way I've been running it.
Adam Kimmel:Yeah, I mean, that's the way they're designed. I think it's important to keep separate that. There's sort of a 134A architecture and a 1234YF architecture. So if you cross those two, that's where you'd need to do some system modifications, potentially because of the A2L flammability. But if you're putting 456 into a 134A system, it's basically half 134A and it's designed to be a direct replacement. So best practice is to fully evacuate and then recharge. But that's it. That's it.
Adam Kimmel:Yeah, yeah, and same story for 444A and 1234YF. It's possible to mix them and there's actually an R number that was defined to do that, 488, which is a mixture of 444A components and 1234YF. But again, best practice is to get that YF out of there and then recharge. But the compatibility and all of the performance elements is a direct replacement.
Jamie Irvine:So if you're selling to the fleets and you're talking them through, they have to plan for that complete evacuation. But they could plan that around a typical maintenance event where they're not incurring any additional downtime. It's just part of the maintenance plan for that vehicle and allows them to switch over. I guess all they'd have to keep track of is then which units they've done, which units still need to be done. Once they're all done, they don't have to worry about it anymore. They just keep buying the 456. And if they were in an R134A architecture, away they go.
Adam Kimmel:Yeah, and I think some of the things that to make sure to keep that straight would be a label on the where the refrigerant is on the vehicle, and then also, like we recommend having a dedicated service machine for that. So take a YF machine dedicated to 444A and then you know, that way you wouldn't be mixing, so you'd know what you had, I guess.
Jamie Irvine:Or in our, in the case of our 134, it would be the 456.
Adam Kimmel:Exactly yeah. Have a dedicated machine, and we're also working with some external partners for the service machines and the refrigerant identification to make sure that we're able to detect in case we'd need to. So that work is ongoing, but it's something that we're not doing in a vacuum. We're partnering with the entire HVAC industry to make sure that the architecture is there and the service equipment is in place so that these disruptive and transformative solutions can be used and implemented in a seamless way. Robert Leonard.
Jamie Irvine:So give us an example of one of your fleet customers and maybe you're selling this through distribution, but eventually it got to the fleet level and they had success with this. Talk me through one of those examples.
Adam Kimmel:Sure, so they're relatively new products, so there's not a ton of data. But what we have gotten back we've done two things. We've upscaled a few employee cars so there's 36, I think, employee vehicles that we've put 456A in and got some qualitative feedback and we've said be objective, really give us the honest feedback so we can share it out. And what the feedback seemed to indicate was that, by and large, it performed exactly as expected. A few had said it performed even better, which I think for a service, if it performed the same, that would clearly meet expectations and if it were a more favorable cost in the case of a YF based replacement, that would be even better. The response was as we would have hoped and expected from the internal customers. We also have about 20 or more external customers that have been purchasing 456. I believe they're in Italy.
Adam Kimmel:Again, limited feedback, but some of what we have heard is that they're excited about the opportunity because it can mitigate some of the illegal trade and things going on. I mean this constraint forces desperation. If you can't get the refrigerant and you're too hot, what are you going to do? And so, in absence of options, it increases the risk profile of something illegal. So they're excited to have a lever to pull as far as a half you know, half the GWP or lower opportunity and I'm very confident that the performance feedback will be similar to what our employees found is that it performs at, or better than, what we'd expect.
Jamie Irvine:Yeah, and these constraints that are being applied here in North America. I think we're very early talking about this here on the Heavy-Duty Parts Report, but I think this episode is going to age very well. I think it's going to become more important for people to listen to this episode as time goes on, as we get closer and closer to the date set for these refrigerant constraints and as those phase downs continue to happen. So if you want people to just remember one thing from today's conversation, what's that one thing?
Adam Kimmel:I'll give you one thing, with several avenues so I can make it longer, but it's that there are options. Now you don't have to feel like you're being shoved into a condition where you have no option other than a high-cost, limited available solution that is driven by some government partnership with the private sector. That's not at all what this is. It's an incentive and a mandate to change behaviors to reduce global warming potential. It's the result of us learning, and we learned about ozone depleting potential. We got rid of chlorine in refrigerants. Sure enough, the ozone repaired itself. Now the same thing's happening.
Adam Kimmel:I mean, combustion is kicking carbon into the atmosphere. Refrigerant leakage is another big component of that. We need to get HFCs out of the atmosphere. We need to make these molecules more available for hydroxyl attack in the atmosphere so that they break apart in days, not years, and these blends are offering really good opportunities to do that. But it is possible to have options without skyrocketing the cost and having them be direct replacement. So it's easy to implement. It won't take time, maybe. The last caveat I'll put is the 30% phase down happened in January of this year. The next phase down will be in 2029. So from a validation standpoint, the window is open if there is a need to validate technology, system architecture or anything else to make sure that you're in place for that next phase down, because another 30% on top of the 40% already is significant and that 29 phase down really feels like the level that you're going to need to change before that happens.
Jamie Irvine:Agreed, and, as you said, maybe there's a way to have our cake and eat it too. And if we could just figure out how to have cake and not have the calories, then we'd really be winning. Well, yeah, I think if you don't have the right refrigerant, you could sweat the calories off maybe.
Adam Kimmel:I'm not sure, but that's what we want. I mean, options are good for the consumer and a challenge is we as manufacturers. It's just a good thing for everybody and I think options are the right way to go, so we're excited to bring these to market. I mean, we know that there's questions. One of the questions that we often get is well, the blends have glide. They're a zeotropic blend. How do we know what the composition is? The composition is all over the place. What we've seen is, even in some of our employee cars, if there's a leak situation, the composition still stays within spec, even with leaks up to 25% or up to 30%. So I'll say can't guarantee that for sure, but the idea that any leak is going to wildly impact the composition. We just haven't observed that in practice, and so, yeah, more testing is certainly going to be done there. But I wouldn't let the fact that there is glide in these blends scare anybody away from using them. I mean, they are as good as they seem, they're performing well, they're stable, they're available and they're exciting.
Jamie Irvine:You've been listening to the Heavy-Duty Parts Report. I'm your host, Jamie Irvin, and we've been speaking with Adam Kimmel, Senior Manager of Business Development at Orbia. If you would like to learn more about Cora, go to coraglobalcom. That's the brand that Orbia has for these products. Adam, thank you so much for being on the Heavy-Duty Parts Report. Really glad to talk to you today.
Adam Kimmel:Thanks so much, Jamie. Pleasure Anytime.
Jamie Irvine:Well, I hope you enjoyed our interview with Orbia, learning about how they are balancing the needs between the environmental side of the equation and the economic side of the equation. If you're interested in learning more, make sure you go to our show notes and click the links to get access to all of the resources that they have available. It's time for our final segment of this episode, that's Not Heavy Duty. In this edition of that's Not Heavy Duty, I wanted to talk about a fleet, a specific fleet, that was faced with a decision of what they were going to prioritize the environment or the economics of their business. And in this particular example, they didn't do what's heavy duty. They did the wrong thing, they made the wrong choice. So let me review it with you. First of all, it comes from my old stomping grounds, the Vancouver area of British Columbia in Western Canada, and according to a Vancouver Sun article, there is a rural valley outside of Mission that has become a dump site for excavated soil and construction waste, with the owners of 14 properties issuing stop work orders over the past year for illegally accepting fill. Now, in one case, the owner of a trucking company purchased a blueberry field and then started dumping hundreds of loads of material containing rebar, concrete and plastic on that land. In June and again in August, british Columbia's Agricultural Land Commission issued a stop work order on the property against the owner of Strand Trucking. This is an Abbasford-based trucking outfit, and this was done after an inspector observed their trucks dumping at this site illegally. Now, in the months since then, neighbors say the activity hasn't really stopped. I quote Robert Spiller where he says they've destroyed the land. Robert Spiller, who lives in the Hatsik Valley for 35 years, says you can't do anything about it and his last name is not a pun, it being Spiller.
Jamie Irvine:The BC law in that area forbids the dumping of construction material on land reserved for farming unless approved by the Land Commission, and the reason is is that this rocky, low-quality dirt that's excavated from construction sites across the region is not good for the environmental health of the soil on this farming land, and so that's why, by law, it needs to be taken to an authorized facility for disposing of this. Now obviously this trucking company is trying to save those disposal fees by just dumping it on this land, and that's illegal. So since February of last year, the Land Commission has issued stop work orders for 13 additional properties on or near Stave Lake Road, noting that SRAM Trucking has been associated with the depositing of fill on other properties in the vicinity without authorization. So this is a real classic situation where an individual or a group of people associated with this trucking company were faced with environmental regulations and what they chose to do was to try to skirt those and to do the wrong thing really, at the end of the day. So sure they might've made some money doing this, maybe a lot of money but at the expense of the ecological and environmental integrity of that farmland.
Jamie Irvine:So this is really counterproductive to, in my opinion, the heavy-duty perspective. If you're going to be a heavy-duty person, you're going to make these tough choices, but you're not going to completely sacrifice one thing for the other, any more than we would completely submit to unreasonable environmental regulations that are imposed upon us by, maybe, a government that has a real ideological bend. Instead, we would go to our representatives, we would express our concerns, we would join the Trucking Association and lobby to have those laws changed. We don't just take unreasonable environmental regulations, but we also wouldn't sacrifice the actual environment just to make a buck, a quick buck, and so I think this is really important.
Jamie Irvine:This whole episode has been about balancing these competing needs of businesses in heavy duty. I think if we're going to be a heavy duty person, we're going to have respect for the land, we're going to have respect for the land, we're going to have respect for our environment. We're also going to put ourselves in a position where we can compete and we can make money as well, and it's really really tough to balance the needs of all of these things. So I hope that gives you some insight. I hope that gives you some things to think about.
Jamie Irvine:Really appreciate you listening to this episode.
Jamie Irvine:I just want to remind you that in a couple of weeks, brake Safety Week does begin. If you haven't already, go back and listen to episode 325. Links are in the show notes where you can review my interview with a brake supplier where we talked about what you need to know about Brake Safety Week. As always, I want to encourage you to go to heavydutypartsreportcom and hit that follow button. Sign up to our weekly email so you never miss out on our content. If you'd like to listen to the podcast on a podcast player of your choice, you can send us a text message by going to the show notes and clicking the link, you can hit the follow button for free and if it gives you the option, give us a five-star rating and review. And finally, if you like watching the video version, make sure you pound that subscribe button on youtube and hit the bell notification so you never miss out. Thank you once again for supporting all that we do at heavy duty parts report and, as always, I want to encourage you to be heavy duty.