How to Choose the Right Alternator for Your Application

Episode 302: Technology on commercial trucks continues to become more complex as more advanced electrical systems are developed. This is changing the demands on the charging system. Alternators need to be high-output and high-performance to meet the needs of the modern semi-truck.

Jonathan E. Smith is the Business Development Manager and Marketing Manager of Prestolite Electric. In this episode, we discuss how to choose the correct alternator for the application of your truck and avoid system-wide electrical issues and unnecessary downtime that occurs when you install the incorrect alternator.

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Transcript

Jamie Irvine: 0:39

You're listening to the heavy duty parts report. I'm your host, jamie Irvin, and this is the place where we have conversations that empower heavy duty people. Welcome to another episode of the heavy duty parts report. What are we going to talk about today? Well, in today's episode, we're going to talk about the impact the Fed are having when they raise interest rates, and this has had an impact on brick and mortar Parts and service companies heavy duty companies in the industry. We're going to talk about what that impact is and what to do about it. We are going to learn about what we need to consider when speccing replacement alternators for heavy duty trucks, and stick around to the end as we discuss how Murphy's law impacts truckers and what to do about it. We could not do any of this without our sponsors. A big thank you to find it parts. If you haven't already, go over to finditpartscom and check out their amazing platform. You can get parts quickly. It is a phenomenal opportunity for you to get access to any of the parts we talk about on the heavy duty parts report. Again, we couldn't do this without their support, so a big thank you to find it parts.

Jamie Irvine: 1:52

So in this week's feature interview, we're going to discuss the changes to trucks, specifically the way electrification impacts how you spec replacement alternators. But before we get into that, that got me thinking about the many changes that we have seen over the last couple years in the industry. One of the changes has been predominantly been fueled by the economy and by inflation and so, just like when you're servicing a heavy duty truck, you have to adapt with the changes to the trucks. You have to adapt how you run your business with the changes in the world, in the economy and in the industry. Rapid inflation has prompted the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates, effectively pulling cash off the street. At the Heavy Duty Consulting Corporation, we have seen the way that this move by the Federal Reserve has impacted heavy duty companies.

Jamie Irvine: 2:51

Banks are now calling in their loans and refinancing with the companies that they serve to take advantage of these higher interest rates. This whole situation has made cash a lot more expensive, a lot more hard to get your hands on, and that has a direct implication on the cash flow of a business. Now we've seen some of our clients adapt to this and take advantage actually of this because it's created some new opportunities. But unfortunately we've also seen a lot of heavy duty companies being caught by this because they were over leveraged. In a worst case scenario, we've actually seen at least one heavy duty company so far literally have to liquidate their inventory and are now going to be shutting down operations because they have to liquidate that inventory to pay back the loans to the bank. This is a worst case scenario. We're not seeing this happen widespread, but we are seeing a lot of companies have to use their cash reserves to pay back loans that have been called in, thereby constricting their ability to do things like buy, inventory and invest in their business. So this is a real situation that's happening right now in 23. It's going to continue to happen in 24. I actually think we may see more businesses close, especially ones that are already leveraged, and right now we're seeing this predominantly impact brick and mortar operations because of the high cost associated with that business model.

Jamie Irvine: 4:20

So, just like when we're servicing equipment, we need to adapt to the changing landscape. If you're struggling right now, reach out to us and we will do all that we can to help you to develop a strategy to adapt your business and to not only survive some of these changes but actually be able to take advantage of them. How would you do that? One is with inventory. If you have inventory, inventory is now king, and there are certain strategies that can be used If you have the ability to move, a lot of inventory suppliers are interested, and we can talk about that as well. If you want to meet with us, just head over to heavydutyconsultingcom. We'd love to have an opportunity to talk to you. If you're buying parts, make sure you go to finditpartscom and start using their service. We've got some episodes on the heavy duty parts where we've interviewed them. We've talked about their business model. They can be an asset to you right now, one that you should be taking advantage of, and we will include in the show notes a link to those episodes with finditparts.

Jamie Irvine: 5:24

It's time now for our featured guest interview, and this week we're going to replay an interview that I did last year with Jonathan E Smith, business development manager at PrestoLite. In this interview we talk about the need to change how we spec alternators Now that trucks have been electrified and the electrical system demand has exponentially increased. Listen into my interview with Jonathan E Smith, business development manager at PrestoLite, and when I think about commercial trucks, especially over, let's say, the last 10 years, the electrical system demands has just gone up and up and up and up. I think back to the trucks that we used to remanufacture pneumatic controls for and everything was mechanical. Everything was just basically either mechanical or air, very little electrical. Now that has all changed. So I'm very happy to have my guest, jonathan Smith. He's the business development manager and marketing manager of Prestolite Electric and Jonathan is back on the show. A returning guest, jonathan. Welcome back to the Heavy Duty Parts Report. So glad to have you here.

Jonathan E. Smith: 6:35

Yeah, nice to be, here.

Jamie Irvine: 6:37

Good to talk to you again, so we're going to talk a little bit about the way that things have changed with commercial trucks. So just talk to us a little bit about the overarching trends with commercial trucks and then we'll get into some specifics.

Jonathan E. Smith: 6:50

Okay, and then what we've seen over the last few years, and kind of alluded to it in your introduction, was the ever-increasing amperage loads on commercial vehicles. Whether in the 70s it was going from an AM radio to an FM radio and a CB, now we have navigation systems, abs and at-role systems. You have the telematics on vehicle troubleshooting where the vehicle is going down the road.

Jamie Irvine: 7:16

Your favorite podcast app.

Jonathan E. Smith: 7:18

Yeah, that's actually my favorite podcast app. But yeah, all those things even though, like each one, if you look at the amperage requirement for those there aren't a lot, but you add them all up and it creates significantly more amperage demands on the vehicle. And then you couple that with the battery to HVAC systems. We've had no idling for a long time, but that's just. As we get into zero emissions and things like that, that's only going to increase. So the larger the alternator you have, the better performance you're going to get out of your battery to HVAC system. And then your voltage has gone up as well. We're still in North America. We're 12 volt, but we're seeing 24 volt, 36 volt. Those are going to increase as these demands increase and you step more toward either hybrid or eDrive. There is talk of plug-in hybrid, but I think the infrastructure plug-ins is a little far away, but it's out there. We'll definitely see it in years of my lifetime.

Jamie Irvine: 8:16

Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing. When you think about commercial trucks, I think of just the number of computers on a given truck. Right, if I remember correctly, there's one ECM dedicated, I think, just to the seat. I think it's the Volvo application. Don't quote me on that, but I remember someone saying something along those lines. It was one of the major trucks and they have an whole ECM just dedicated to controlling the seat. Things have gotten complicated, the electrical systems. There's so much more demand. Is it just responding to new technology or is there any other underlying drivers when I think of as truck OEMs are trying to get more performance out of the vehicle as well?

Jonathan E. Smith: 8:58

Yes, yeah, and that's like when you're talking about higher voltages and stuff. The higher voltage requires less wire. You don't have to have as big a wire as you do with a 12 volt, so that significantly increases the performance of the vehicle. The higher amperage loads as you get more of these electrical loads on there. The higher amperage makes sure that everything runs at an optimal level, and I was gonna get a little bit into that later. But yeah is, you don't want things to run at low voltage, so you have a 12 volt system. You wanna make sure your batteries are 12 volts, all that stuff runs optimally. So once you start having too many loads without enough alternator to cover those, then that starts taking grain out of your battery. And once that starts happening, you're running at 10 volts, 11 volts, and those components really don't like that. They don't run well at that and they don't last long with that. Even your starter, when you start doing low voltage, cranks on your starter over and over and over, the life of that starter significantly decreases.

Jamie Irvine: 9:59

Right. And then this is where total cost of operation becomes a real factor, because if we start to run in, let's just say not an optimal way, we start to have failures. Now we're driving up our costs, and it all started just with the extra load on the electrical system.

Jonathan E. Smith: 10:17

Absolutely 100% total cost ownership keeping that vehicle on the road. So some of the alternators that will talk them out in a little bit up front, they're not the cheapest alternator but your total cost of ownership. We're offering a four-year unlimited mileage warranty on these products. That's designed to keep you on the road trouble-free for four years, so you're not worrying about that. So if you have a lesser alternator, one that doesn't perform as well, you start changing out starters. A starter change out, that's an hour of labor. How much is an hour of labor nowadays? $100 an hour, $150 an hour. You have three alternators put on. Over the four-year period that this one would have lasted you Again, there's $500 in labor just on changing out alternators. So really those things significantly increase over time. Where you spend the money up front, you get the value out of it on the other side.

Jamie Irvine: 11:10

Right and just throw in there a pandemic and global geopolitical issues messing up the supply chain and you might get caught where one of the parts you need isn't available. And now your downtime goes through the roof. Okay, so we're going to talk some more specific products when we get back from the break. We'll be right back. Are you deferring maintenance because of filter cost or availability? Or, worse yet, are you trading down to no-name filters to try to save a few bucks? Either way, you're rolling the dice. The good news there's a new premium filter option for fleets Hank's filtration. If you're responsible for a fleet, you won't believe how much using Hank's filters will save you. But you've got to go to heavydutypartsreportcom slash hanks to find out more. That's heavydutypartsreportcom slash H-E-N-G-S-T Head there. Now.

Jamie Irvine: 12:00

This episode of the Heavyduty Parts Report is brought to you by Find it Parts, your ultimate destination for heavy-duty truck and trailer parts. Discover a vast range of parts at finditpartscom. Don't spend hours a day looking for parts. Instead, visit finditpartscom and get them right away. As we all know, there are so many more electrical demands. With each commercial truck and each year that they come out, it seems to be more and more. That means you've got to adapt your approach to things like your alternators and your starters. Jonathan, what is your recommendation to someone who is saying, look, I need to spec the right alternator, the right starter for the system on my truck and the demands it's going to go through? First of all, let's talk about how they would come to the correct part, and then we'll talk about some specific products that your company sells.

Jonathan E. Smith: 12:53

Okay, yeah, we have a. When you're ordering a new truck now when they have a star, we're first to have a star. As you add electrical loads to your option sheet, they have. It automatically increases the size of your alternator. You know your requirement of your own never goes up as you've added things and then we also have on the other side, we have a technical service bulletin that you could go through step by step. So you had an older truck and you were either unsure of the performance or you're all native, or you've gone through more than you thought you should have, or you've added more electrical loads. You've added the telematics, you've added HVAC system. You're not getting the performance out of that that you think you should.

Jonathan E. Smith: 13:32

We have a tech service bulletin that'll go through step by step on how to calculate your vehicle's load and then we take that calculation, go to our power curve. You want to make sure you're covering all your loads at idle. So you have 150 amp load. 150, 160, that doesn't sound like a ton, but that's at idle. A 250 amp all-in-ator 240 amp all-in-ator probably doesn't put out most of them don't put out 150 amps at idle. So our 350 amp all-in-ator puts out 200, 210 amps at idle. So but that's how you kind of calculate it. You want to see what your vehicle load is and then you want to compensate for the thermal degradation. You want to leave a little bit to go back to the batteries. So you're 10% for thermal degradation.

Jonathan E. Smith: 14:17

Because any alternator I don't care who's it is once that alternator starts getting warm or any electrical motor like that gets warm, it loses efficiency. At 70 degrees it puts out at 4,000 RPM it's putting out 250 amps. Well, at 125 degrees C it's putting out less than that at the same amperage. And it's mine, yours, whoever makes those. But you want to make sure that you can compensate for that temperature as well, because the underhood temperatures have gone up as well as the amperages have gone up and they'll continue to go up, because as you get aerodynamics, you don't want air coming into the motor, you want it going around, you want it going underneath. So the underhood engine temperatures have gone up significantly as well. So all of our products that we have them at 125 degrees C, even our 420 amp idle pro stream alternator is rated at 125 degrees C.

Jamie Irvine: 15:10

Okay, let's talk about idle pro, because that's a line that your company has brought out. It's specifically for that user that needs that next level technology, so let's talk a little bit about it. What is idle pro? What makes it perform the way it does?

Jonathan E. Smith: 15:25

Yep, we have our idle pro alternators. They are high amperage dual internal fan alternators. They're E-coded for corrosion resistance. We are our first fit Navistar with 160 amp version, and then on Thomas Boss, bluebird Boss, we're a 210 amp version. We also have a 240 amp version that has about 160, 170 amps at idle. The 210 and the 240 are covered by our press light power promise warranty. So on a brushed unit we're giving a three year unlimited mileage warranty. And then, when you step up to a brushless units, we have our idle pro stream alternators and they're a 220 amp up to 420 amp brushless, high amp brushless units. They're E-coded for corrosion resistance. They have the remote sense, the lamp driver and we use bar wound staters so that they have significantly more output at idle. So even our the 220 amp has over 200 amps at idle.

Jamie Irvine: 16:20

So it sounds like a lot of engineering went into this idle pro line and it really comes down to matching the part to the application. So let's talk a little bit about economic impact. You alluded to this before in our previous segment, but when you have something that has a higher purchase price, like the idle pro line, does it actually cost more?

Jonathan E. Smith: 16:41

No, I mean, and that's the thing, like you know, you get to a 350 amp alternator. So you've gone out and you've bought your truck and then you put on a battery to HVAC system and then we give you the bill, or you get the bill for the all 350 amp alternator. I think I can get a 200 amp alternator for a third of that or half of that. So what are the things that are really important in the market today? You know, keeping your vehicle on the road and driver attention right, because it's hard to get driver. So you've cheaped out on the alternator, you put a 200 amp alternator on this battery to HVAC system, your driver goes out, he drives eight hours down the road, he stops at night and this system is designed to give eight to ten hours of creature comforts, barry HVAC.

Jamie Irvine: 17:24

So if it's cold or it's hot, ready, gets his chimi changa, puts it in the microwave bolt.

Jonathan E. Smith: 17:28

No power yeah so instead he gets there, instead of having eight to ten hours, you know in three hours in he's hot, he's cold, his chimi changa is cold.

Jamie Irvine: 17:39

He's in the middle of emailing or face-typing with his wife and the system goes down and his tablet that's charging dies. I mean now the guys. He's mad. He's mad and you know.

Jonathan E. Smith: 17:50

The other thing we alluded to earlier was low voltage. So you know you you've got all these components that are low voltage. You know you're not covering your load as you go down the road because you didn't put a big enough alternator on. So any of your sensors, electrical components, your switches, sensors you know all that stuff. You know that your seat, you know the, the ECM that just controls your seat Low voltage to that can burn out that component. So how many of those things do you go through?

Jonathan E. Smith: 18:16

When you saved you know X amount of dollars, you went for a third of the price alternator. But you've gone through significant electrical components. One road stop, one breakdown on the side of the road, for any one of these Wipes out the difference of money you saved on that one alternator before you even go and change it alternator and put the right one on. So you know total cost of ownership when you put on you know our 350 amp idle pro extreme alternator and you get the battery HPC you need and you have four years and limited amount of warranty on that. All your electrical components are covered. Your batteries are cycling optimally. Paying out a little bit more in the front end Really gets you a lot of benefit on the other side.

Jamie Irvine: 18:55

Right, and I mean even even if you were just to pick one of the more easily measured. You know economic parts of this equation. So, okay, I spend three times as much Buying the part, but it lasts for four years instead of two, right? Well, in all of a sudden, that bill to have it changed and the labor and the additional downtime, proper decision around purchase price is now making you money two years out if it fails a third time. Well, now you're into actually Really driving down lower total cost of operation.

Jamie Irvine: 19:31

And then there's all of those other components Like how much does it cost when, if you're not running a fleet in the way that you should and there's constant Breakdowns and you're you're losing drivers because of it? Like, what is the cost of hiring and training a driver? It's in the thousands. So you know it's. It's sometimes it's it's a little bit of a leap for people to say, yeah, well, what I choose on on spec for alternators isn't going to affect driver retention.

Jamie Irvine: 19:57

I mean, how are you correlating those two? Maybe it's not a direct correlation, but it's certainly part of the equation. And so a percentage of the cost of Retention and hiring and training would have to be allocated to the total Decisions you make as a fleet on parts. And when I was selling parts, jonathan and maybe you can you can speak to this because you do a lot of work with fleets and training and things like that through your distribution network. But when I was selling parts, I kind of found that if the fleet had a culture around lower total cost of operation, they bought higher quality parts and that seemed to infiltrate like every aspect of the way they did business. Conversely, if they're, if they're not, it has negative implications across the board on the way they run their businesses. That what you've seen as well.

Jonathan E. Smith: 20:42

You know, I've seen that. And I've seen even simpler. You know, if I've gone to a fleet and I've, you know, gone to a fleet with an outside guy and we walk in the door and I'm tripping over cores here and you know, I'm, you know, skin to my pant leg on a brake drum that's greasy, you know and I come out.

Jamie Irvine: 20:57

Yeah, you get that one dot of axle grease and then all of a sudden it's like all over your shirt. You're like how did that happen? Yeah.

Jonathan E. Smith: 21:02

I mean, I had the toe, you know yeah yeah, it's in your hair.

Jonathan E. Smith: 21:07

I have left. But yeah, it's those kind of things. You know simple, simple things. You know a clean, I can walk in and you know if I know somebody's doing they, I'm having a problem. I can walk in there and know if they're having problems or not. Simplest thing on the vehicle is keep your batteries clean. You know that keeps the discharge down on the batteries. Because the batteries are discharging. The trucks got to work harder to keep those charged during the day, you know. So yeah, that starts with you know keeping things clean, keeping your vehicles clean, you know, and then, looking at beyond the cost of the part, here is what it's going to get you all the way across.

Jamie Irvine: 21:41

Hey, jonathan, can you think of any occasion where a fleet made this change with the idle pro product line and then they got some significant Improvements? Because I know you're been selling this now for a little over a year or a couple years now. Can you think of any, any specific stories where where fleets were successful? Because I think sometimes you know it's, we can talk about the idea but then if we show them an example, it helps people to kind of conceptualize it.

Jonathan E. Smith: 22:06

Yeah, you know, and I mean, we have a significant national fleet that we've been working with because you know, on these all names you just don't go to DTNA and say, hey, put this in your option book.

Jonathan E. Smith: 22:17

You know we have to go through a five season task in order to get the all native qualified to even and DTNA. I mean there they're very strict as far as what they'll allow you to put on. Even a big fleet says, hey, I want to put this all later on my truck. Well, so it passes the five season test. We're not gonna do it and I don't care how many trucks you want to order. So we had a large, large fleet that we had some not as much success with and probably 25 years ago, you know we went back in there with this all later and they put it on versus competitors product and you know, performance at idle, performance Over the road, with the e-coding and the high temperature rating, we were not only allowing us to pass our five season test, but they're gonna be specking our alternator on those vehicles as opposed to the competitors product.

Jamie Irvine: 23:04

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know the five season, so that's literally like it has to be. What 15 months?

Jamie Irvine: 23:10

Mm-hmm right, I was just thinking. Like you, you might be able to get lucky on one season, maybe on two, but not on all four plus plus an extra winter, like you know, the performance in the lab versus the performance in the field, right, and and that's where it's gotta pass the mustard it's gotta be Something that operates in real-world conditions across that, like you say, that large range of temperature, all of those conditions, and you have to be able to repeat that success season after season. So that that's, that's cool. I didn't know that they actually called it a five season test.

Jonathan E. Smith: 23:44

Yeah, yeah, we're very well versed in the five season.

Jamie Irvine: 23:47

Yeah, you've, you've gotten your phd at that. As heavy-duty equipment, it becomes more electrified and more complex. We will need to update the way that we spec, diagnose by replacement parts, and repair these trucks and pieces of heavy-duty equipment. I think today's episode is a good example of of that, where some of the old ways of thinking we need to change. We need to keep up to date with the new systems and the new demands Of modern-day equipment, and that, being adaptable, I think, is part of being heavy-duty right. It's not just about being resilient, it's also about quickly adapting and overcoming any challenges that we face. So I think today's episode was a great example of that. I hope you enjoyed it. It's time for that's not heavy-duty. Have you ever heard of Murphy's law? Well, murphy's law is basically everything that can go wrong will go wrong. Don't ignore doing inspections and doing preventative maintenance. That's not heavy-duty at definitely underscore.

Jamie Irvine: 24:52

Riley on tiktok. They made a funny video that I think really highlights the all too common situation faced by truckers. Now, this video doesn't have any audio, but let me describe exactly what is on the video. First of all, in the video he plays the Genesis song, that's all, and the caption on the video says your alternator falls off 300 miles after you plug 20 holes in the red. It's exactly the kind of burphies law that happens right, and I remember selling parts. I would sell parts to someone, we would get a truck up and running and then, yeah, they would phone me not that long later. I say you can't believe it. Now this failed, I need help, and so this is just all too common in the trucking industry. Some of it is unavoidable, but a lot of it is avoidable, and thank you very much to atdefinitely underscore Riley for being heavy-duty and reminding us of the importance of doing regular maintenance and avoiding downtime as much as possible. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode.

Jamie Irvine: 26:09

We are attending HDAW the heavy-duty aftermarket week this week, and we're so excited. The whole team is heading to Grapevine, texas. Diana Kudmore, our podcast director, will be there, scott Bolts, our director of consulting services, and Mike Parnitsky, one of our consultants, along with yours truly, will be at the show. So if you're there right now and you've been listening to today's episode on, let's say, monday, make sure you come find us. Our booth is just outside the exhibition hall. We've got a podcast booth there. We are doing interviews on Tuesday and we are having meetings on Wednesday, so we are so looking forward to coming together as an industry to talk about heavy-duty parts. It's what we do.

Jamie Irvine: 26:51

If you haven't already and you want to listen to some of the interviews we do from the show floor, why not go over to heavy-duty parts? Go to wwwfinditpartscom today and hit the follow button. You get one weekly email with all of our content so you never miss out. And if you enjoy listening to the show and the podcast player of your choice, hit follow button. And if you like watching on YouTube, make sure you subscribe. We would really appreciate that. Also, go check out our sponsor, finditpartscom. We couldn't do what we do without support from great sponsors like Find it Parts, so go over to finditpartscom today if you buy parts and don't forget, be heavy-duty.