The Diesel Queen's Journey: Breaking Barriers in Heavy-Duty

Episode 299: Historically speaking Melissa Petersmann (The Diesel Queen), is not your average diesel technician. But we think that she is an example of the future of heavy-duty. The more young talented people we can attract to the industry the better.

In this episode, you will hear Melissa’s story and she breaks down the barriers that she had to overcome to become a diesel technician and why it is the best decision she could have made for her career and her future.

Show Notes: Visit HeavyDutyPartsReport.com for complete show notes of this episode and to subscribe to all our content.

Sponsors of this Episode

FinditParts: Are you looking to purchase heavy-duty parts and get your commercial vehicle repaired? Get access to the largest source of heavy-duty truck and trailer parts in the United States and Canada. Buy your parts from FinditParts.com

Hengst Filtration: There's a new premium filter option for fleets -- Hengst Filtration. If you're responsible for a fleet, you won't believe how much using Hengst filters will save you. But you've got to go to HeavyDutyPartsReport.com/Hengst to find out how much.

HDA Truck Pride: They’re the heart of the independent parts and service channel. They have 750 parts stores and 450 service centers conveniently located across the US and Canada. Visit HeavyDutyPartsReport.com/HDATruckPride today to find a location near you.

Disclaimer: This content and description may contain affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, The Heavy Duty Parts Report may receive a commission.

Sign up for our weekly email so you never miss out on an episode: Follow the Show

Transcript

Jamie Irvine: 0:39

You're listening to the Heavy Duty Parts Report. I'm your host, jamie Irvin, and this is the place where we have conversations that empower heavy duty people. We've come to the end of 2023 and the team at the Heavy Duty Parts Report is taking a much needed break this week. We hope you're enjoying your holiday season, and what we wanted to do is we wanted to replay one of our most popular episodes. It's an important conversation worth a listen to again, but before we do that, we just wanted to take a moment to express our sincere gratitude to you, the audience, to our guests and, of course, to our sponsors. Without all of your support, we wouldn't be able to do what we do and it wouldn't have led to multiple years of record breaking seasons back to back to back. 23 was a difficult year for the trucking industry, but at the Heavy Duty Parts Report, we've continued to groan and it has been just an awesome, awesome experience. So thank you to all of you. We couldn't do it without your support.

Jamie Irvine: 1:41

Now, this replay this week is with an interview that I did with Melissa, the Diesel Queen. It's one of our most popular episodes and we go deep into her story of becoming a heavy duty technician, and we also talk about what it's going to take to recruit technicians into the industry. An important subject, one worth another listen. So enjoy the replay with my interview with Melissa the Diesel Queen, and so I'm very excited to have Melissa the Diesel Queen on the podcast today. Melissa, welcome to the Heavy Duty Parts Report. So glad to have you here.

Melissa Petersmann: 2:15

I am happy to be here. The technician shortage, like you said, is a very real thing and it's just getting worse, so I am excited to cover those bases with you.

Jamie Irvine: 2:26

Well, let's get started. First of all, let's talk about your background as a technician. So how many years were you working with John Deere?

Melissa Petersmann: 2:34

I had seven years with a John Deere. It was two John Deere dealerships, three actually, that I worked with, but it was a total of seven years.

Jamie Irvine: 2:44

And I was curious what is the thing that at first attracted you to working in the industry as a diesel technician?

Melissa Petersmann: 2:53

I grew up around it. My father actually is a logger so he had his own business. So I spent a lot of my time as a child in the woods and around logging equipment. He had a log truck, he had a diesel pickup and he fixed all his own stuff. And then in high school I started hanging around kids that went to the trade school in town the trade college and I started helping them work on their own stuff. And I started helping them work on their project cars and project trucks and I just fell in love with it and I'm like well, it's either turn wrenches or train horses and there is no money in training horses.

Melissa Petersmann: 3:32

So I decided to go full time into Y O Tech, which is the school that I the trade school that I went to, and I actually went for semis and I started at a semi dealership. I worked there three months. I had a job before I even graduated. I worked there three months. They started cutting hours because they were really slow. I was one of the three new kids there that was getting my hours cut really bad and I had just bought a house so I could not afford that and the only dealership or the only shop in town that would hire me that was not night shift, was John Deere actually. So I applied for I don't know how many truck shops and how many dealerships, and the only place that would hire me not night shift is John Deere, and I've never looked back since.

Jamie Irvine: 4:23

That's awesome. So I think your story is unique in some ways because of who you are and maybe the wide range of interests that you have. Like, I know that you are involved in modeling and acting and so really those two things they don't automatically. You don't put those two things together diesel tech and model actress. But your story of like having an exposure to it as a child through a family connection is probably the more common part of your story. That's what I seem to see over and over again. Unless you have that connection somehow in your family, it's almost like the industry and the opportunities in the industry are invisible to you.

Melissa Petersmann: 5:04

Well, people have this really skewed image. If you don't grow up around it, you'd have a very skewed image of what the job actually is. You know, I even ran into this a little bit when I was first deciding to be a mechanic. Obviously my dad's like hell, yeah, go for it. But you know I did run into an issue with, you know, my mom and my stepdad Like obviously they're always supportive of me and they love me, but they were concerned that I was not gonna be making any money. I was just gonna be a greasy dirt ball that couldn't afford to live and couldn't afford anything and I was never gonna make it anywhere with this wanting to be a diesel mechanic thing. And it's just a phase. And I battled them pretty hard to not go to a community college and go to a trade school, like I originally decided to. But it's been the best decision I've ever made and now I make more than my mom.

Jamie Irvine: 6:01

There you go.

Melissa Petersmann: 6:02

Once they started to realize that this is a lucrative trade and you can have a job wherever you go, and if you're not happy with the shop you're working at, there's five more down the road that'll hire you.

Jamie Irvine: 6:12

Yesterday, once they realized that they were sold on it, Right and I think you make a couple of really good points. So one if you're not gonna go through a like four years bachelor degree, if that's not the path you're gonna take, it is possible that unless you find an industry like trucking or heavy equipment, unless you find something like that that really will pay you for expertise that you can develop, you probably are gonna struggle financially. And I think that that's one of the really sad things about the shortage is that there's all these people out there who don't really know about our industry who are struggling financially. Maybe they're working minimum wage and they don't really have a future, or they're in an industry where there's a lot of competition, therefore the prices of like what you get paid or weighed down, and then you've got our industry where we're desperate for good people, we're looking for people and we pay really, really well.

Melissa Petersmann: 7:10

Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I started in this industry I started at. 17 bucks an hour was my starting wage out of college and that was seven years ago. Now it's more like starting wages or getting close to $20 an hour for mechanics and that's like straight out of trade school, like if you hire in as an apprentice it might be a little less but you're still gonna be way above minimum wage and pay raises. If you show up and you try hard, your pay raises will come very good. I got $2 an hour pay raises pretty much my entire career because, with the exception of COVID and stuff like that, I've got pretty decent pay raises my entire career. But that's how it is. All you gotta do is show up and work hard because, like you said, this industry is desperate for people and they're desperate for good people and if you put in your best effort and you're reliable, they will pay you for that. You will be compensated for that.

Jamie Irvine: 8:12

So let me ask you something, melissa, and I think we need to be as real and as honest as possible. So in our industry, there is definitely like a stereotype around who becomes a diesel technician and you don't fit that stereotype at all, and I personally think that's a really good thing, because I think, if we're gonna solve this problem, we're not gonna be able to just rely on the stereotypical type of guy who's going to join our industry. We need to broaden our horizons. But let's be real for a minute. As you came into the industry, other than concern from your mom and your stepdad, what other barriers did you run into as you entered the industry? Did you run into any kinds of people giving you opposition just based on who you are and maybe what you look like?

Melissa Petersmann: 9:02

To be honest with you, I grew up and I worked almost my entire career in Wyoming, and in Wyoming women in the trades is not a weird thing, it's not an odd thing, that's normal. But when I was interviewing for jobs, trying to figure out where I was gonna work straight out of college, obviously, I went to a trade show with YOTech. That went great. I had one situation with the Caterpillar dealership actually down in Denver, colorado, that I interviewed with for their truck shop and they knew I was straight out of trade school. They knew.

Melissa Petersmann: 9:37

They knew that I didn't know anything, that I'm gonna be a fresh person, I have no experience. They knew that and the guy agreed to interview me and then pretty much spent the entire interview asking me do I have experience on this? Do I have experience on that? Do I have experience on that? I'm like I freaking told you guys I don't. And I feel like and this is a very rare occurrence there's a skewed image that men in this industry are able to women and that's just usually not true. This was a very rare occurrence but I'm 90% sure he hired, he agreed to that interview just to talk to me and see who I was, because he was curious I don't think he had any intentions of hiring me, so that was one of them.

Melissa Petersmann: 10:25

I've also had a boss. Tell me, which I can get into that story later, I guess, okay.

Jamie Irvine: 10:30

Well, let's just yeah, I'm glad that you said that so one.

Jamie Irvine: 10:33

You were fortunate enough to be in an area where women in the trades wasn't as uncommon, so therefore it was more normalized. I think that's what we have to do across the board, nationally is we have to normalize this idea that it's not just the stereotypical technician that we need to look at. We need to look at recruiting people from different backgrounds that maybe just don't fit the traditional mold of what we're used to, because that's, to me, that's the only way we're gonna solve this technician problem. But I'm glad to hear that, overall, your experience has been relatively positive and that people have treated you with the respect that you deserve. And obviously, as you've gained an experience, then you're able to use that experience to the benefit of who you've worked for and, obviously, for your future goals for yourself. So that's good to know, and I think we need to let people know that, because if there are women thinking about joining the industry and they're concerned about those issues, it's good that we talk about them openly, don't you agree?

Melissa Petersmann: 11:35

Oh yeah, and I've never been a quiet voice on that particular subject because I've seen and heard a lot of bad things about being a woman in the industry and a lot of it. This is going to sound kind of bad, but a lot of these women they're complaining because they're an apprentice and the guy is not an apprentice and they're getting oil changes and he's not. I don't see a problem with that. Like, you can't expect to be given more opportunities or better opportunities or to excel faster just because you're a woman. You have to be able to grind, just like the men, and that's how I entered the industry.

Melissa Petersmann: 12:21

I entered the industry of like, I'm going to do whatever they tell me to. I'm going to do what it takes. I started on services and I did services and PDIs for John Deere for six months straight and I did like batteries and a bunch of little jobs and then they slowly started giving me bigger jobs and then bigger jobs and obviously, as young mechanics, you mess it up and then you got it. You can't expect to. There's a lot, and it's not just women either. There's a lot of kids that enter this industry that expect to be given. Oh, I was in trade school for a year, I'm going to go into the industry and be doing engineering bills right away, and that's not real. If you got to prove that you can do an oil change first before, they get something bigger.

Jamie Irvine: 13:06

My experience, melissa, was very similar. So I'm not a technician, but I started off remanufacturing parts and I remember the very first three days I worked at that company. I was 18 years old and they put me on a sandblaster and just tried to break me. It was like, well, if the guy can sandblast for eight hours a day for three days straight, maybe we'll keep him around and let him actually tear down some cores. That was like my reward. So I had to pay my dues as well.

Jamie Irvine: 13:31

And one of my mentors and anybody who's listened to the show of any length of time will hear me say this repeatedly but one of my mentors said to me how do you get 20 years experience? I was like I don't know. He's like come see me in 20 years. There really isn't a way to shortcut that growth and that knowledge transfer that happens as you start at the bottom and work your way up. You were willing to accept whatever task came your way. At some point did you realize or recognize maybe there was an area of specialty that you wanted to pursue, and how did you go about doing that if that's the case?

Melissa Petersmann: 14:06

So I started in the construction side. I've worked on construction and ag but the first two years was construction, solely construction. I mean the first two years was really just me figuring out what I'm trying to do and what I want to do and what I like to do, and trying to make it without messing something up for a day I ended up being by the end of my career I really specialized in the nine hour tractors. When I worked on the ag side I was given a lot of nine hour tractors. If I worked at an ag dealership I was given mostly tractors. In general, large ag was my specialty. In the ag dealerships and the construction dealerships I pretty much worked on anything. The last construction dealership I worked at was a very small shop and I was the only shop mechanic. For a long time plus I tried to run the shop for three months while they were trying to get a new boss and I had to work on everything.

Melissa Petersmann: 15:07

I mean I love cylinders. I can do hydraulic cylinders really well. Engine work I enjoy a lot. I don't think there's a mechanic that doesn't enjoy engine work, unless maybe you're flat rate Transmission, backhoe transmissions I can freaking fly through backhoe transmissions. Greater pips for their product improvements for greater hydraulics. I got a list.

Jamie Irvine: 15:32

But you only got there because you went through that training process. You were willing to do whatever job they gave you and you obviously learned from some really great people, correct?

Melissa Petersmann: 15:41

Well, yeah, obviously everybody messes up. Everybody has hard weeks, hard times, hard months. Sometimes it happens, but for the most part, the last solid four, four and a half years of my career, my bosses were not scared to give me big jobs and give me multiple jobs. I was decent. Sometimes I'd struggled with it, but for the most part I was decent at being able to juggle like one or two big jobs at a time and then a couple little ones in between, ordering parts and stuff like that.

Melissa Petersmann: 16:10

So if you got the mindset for it and you want to try and you want to work hard, you will climb that ladder, which is you just got to. Like you said, you got to climb the ladder. There is no shortcut. There is no. I started in the industry and I'm doing engineering builds. Maybe you're doing an engineering build with another technician that is teaching you, but you are not going to be doing all that right out of the gate. And that's a common misconception that I've seen a lot of kids have in this industry when they come into a shop is they just expect to be given all these big jobs right away and it's like, no, you need to be able to prove you can do it, I'll change right first, and then we can talk about maybe giving you a little bit bigger jobs.

Jamie Irvine: 16:46

Okay, well, we're going to take a quick break here from our sponsors and when we get back I'd like to talk about the next steps of your career. You got some exciting news, so we'll talk about that in just a minute. We'll be right back. Are you deferring maintenance because of filter cost or availability or, worse yet, are you trading down to no name filters to try to save a few bucks? Either way, you're rolling the dice.

Jamie Irvine: 17:07

The good news there's a new premium filter option for fleets Hanks filtration. If you're responsible for a fleet, you won't believe how much using Hanks filters will save you. But you've got to go to heavy duty parts reportcom slash Hanks to find out more. That's heavy duty parts reportcom slash HENGST. Head there now, melissa, it was really good to get to know you a little bit better, kind of understand the trajectory of your career. We touched on some of the core issues with trying to attract new people to the industry. You're going to really use your voice moving forward to try to help us solve this technician shortage. One of the ways that you're doing that is through a partnership with Diesel Laptops. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Melissa Petersmann: 17:52

Yes, actually, this banner they made me For the overhauled podcast that I'm actually working on right now. One of the main points of this podcast is to really dive into all levels of technicians and all levels of the industry and really figure out where the problem is. What is the missing link here? What are we missing? Because going to high schools and talking to 500 kids doesn't work. We've been trying that. Every shop I've ever worked at tried that. They never got anybody out of it.

Melissa Petersmann: 18:28

What I've learned is I've interviewed about three people. Now. I've had the first girl I had on there. She is somebody that actually drove up to my shop that I worked at in Wyoming to talk to me about wanting to become a diesel technician. She's 17. She's like a little mini-me. She's awesome. She had so many good questions of what do I do, how do I handle it if I mess up and I'm really hard on myself, how do you get through this phase of? I don't think I'm going to make it. She had such great questions I got anywhere from her to. I just got done interviewing someone yesterday with 15 years of experience.

Melissa Petersmann: 19:14

What I've learned a lot is I'm trying to dig into the background of these people, which is what you did with me. What made them want to get into this industry and how can we attract more people? I actually had a kid that had no background in the industry at all. Like you were saying, the majority of mechanics are people that grew up in it or around it or know about it. Whatever this kid had no, no one in his family didn't grow up around it. He just happened to try this class that his high school was putting on through a college for diesel mechanics and fell in love with it.

Melissa Petersmann: 19:51

I'm trying to dig into how we can create programs or maybe voices. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to use my voice to show kids that you don't have to grow up with a logger as a father to be a diesel mechanic. You don't have to grow up with daddy owning a truck shop to be a diesel mechanic. That's what me and diesel laptops are trying to achieve here is figuring out how we can use my social media platforms, my voice I have a lot of followers, along with everybody else, including people like yourself that already have podcasts, things like that to get that voice out there of hey, this industry is not some dirty greasy. I mean sometimes I mean, I'm the technician that's dirty by nine o'clock. It's not this low level, low income job that people think it is. It's not you make really good money. It is good money and they want you.

Jamie Irvine: 20:49

It's a career and it's an industry that are filled with really quality people. I think you've experienced that. Just like you said, you haven't run into some of those stereotypical issues that other women run into in other industries, probably by virtue of the fact that our industry is more blue collar and it is more family oriented, and there's probably lots of dads with daughters and sisters and moms who they respect women. When they see a woman really trying, they want to encourage her and help her. As you were talking about what you're trying to accomplish with overhaul, one thing that came to my mind is I think we need to develop a profile for the kind of person that we would want to attract to the industry. Maybe by you and other advocates like myself working together collaboratively, we can start to build like hey look, this is the kind of person we're looking for. If we can make messaging that reaches that kind of person, maybe we can do a better job of attracting people to the industry.

Melissa Petersmann: 21:47

I do agree with that. The one thing that I actually told Tyler in my interview with him that I can reiterate it to you is something that I feel very strongly about, is the reason why our trades are failing as far as kids going into it. I know I just said speaking to high schools doesn't work. I still stand by that a little bit, but it does start in high school. When I went to high school, you had to take an automotive class to graduate and you had to take either a welding or a woodworking class to graduate. Like I told Tyler this story, I've been taking welding classes since late middle school because that's when they started offering them.

Melissa Petersmann: 22:33

I loved it. My dad had the little pad of my test welds for ever because he was so proud of it. But I've been welding forever. When I went to move to Laramie and saw they had a welding class, obviously I'm like hell, yeah, I'm taking that. I don't want to do normal classes, I want to do all these classes.

Melissa Petersmann: 22:55

My whole senior year was pretty much those types of classes, but because it was a requirement, there were kids in that welding class that would have never, ever in their life chosen to do that class if it was not a requirement. Like I told Tyler, there was this girl and she was a sweetheart, but she was this like through and through little goth girl, right Like the tall boots, fishnet leg thingies, skirt fricking.

Melissa Petersmann: 23:26

Black makeup, black makeup, white hair straight up goth girl and she was in the welding class and she was over there running beads. Do you think she would have picked that as a class, as an elective ever? No, but there she is running her beads and she was actually really good at it. She was great and there's tons of kids that went through that high school.

Jamie Irvine: 23:48

So to your point. I just want to make sure I understand. So to your point like having a big one and done kind of presentation in a gymnasium with 500 students where they mention our industry once, that's the thing that fails. That's not what works. But having electives built into the course curriculum, having exposure to the industry at an early age, you feel that that's a more successful strategy. And then, in addition to that, building digital content that will reach these young people earlier so that they can get exposed to the industry. It's the combination of those kinds of things that you think is going to be part of a successful strategy.

Melissa Petersmann: 24:26

Yeah, which you know talking to high schools. I'm not saying it doesn't work completely or it's a complete waste, but out of 500 kids you might have 10 that are listening to you Maybe. Yeah, you know, I had an FFA group come through the shop when I worked at the ag dealership in Cheyenne and these are kids that are in FFA. They should be all over that. We have a giant ag tractor in the shop and I'm sitting there teaching them how to do like regions and stuff on the computer. These are freaking farm kids. They should be all over this. And I had two guys and one girl out of the group of 25 kids that were there that actually paid attention. I pretty much just taught everything to those three. No one else paid attention.

Jamie Irvine: 25:08

Yeah, well, you got to go where the audience is. So, Melissa, let me ask you something, because maybe, in addition to trying to get the messaging to young people, I also think that there's a group of people in their 20s, maybe even as old as early 30s, who are lost. They're lost right now. They don't know, you know, all the social norms have been turned on their heads. We live in this crazy world that we're in now, the economics of our economy and have really been weakened over the last few years. This is not the environment, for example, that I grew up in at that age, nor is it even the environment maybe you grew up in. It's changed that much in the last few years. So how do we reach that group of people?

Melissa Petersmann: 25:55

That's a great question, because they are. Those are and I actually have brought this point up before is people that tried college, didn't work, you know, can't afford college and are working for minimum wage. Those are great people to get into this industry. Those are great people and, especially, a lot of them want to work. They want to go out and they want to work, but they can't. Either can't find a job or the job they have is minimum wage and they are working. It's just not paying their bills. One of my best friends and one of my the women that I really look up to the most she's a freaking single mom. When she found this industry, she didn't go to school, nothing. She was struggling as a single mom and her grandma was a diesel mechanic actually, believe it or not, which is cool as hell.

Melissa Petersmann: 26:42

And she decided that, hey, I want to make some money and I want to do good because I want to provide for my daughter. So she freaking has been killing it for the last nine years as a heavy equipment mechanic because she just threw herself into it and she tried hard, she showed up and she took all the training opportunities she could get and now she's a service manager for Caterpillar. Wow, and yeah, she's freaking awesome.

Jamie Irvine: 27:09

So, melissa, let me ask you something, because you made a statement that I agree with, but I think there is nevermind misconceptions about people with different backgrounds or gender or whatever.

Jamie Irvine: 27:19

Let's just talk about the misconception around the fact that young people don't want to work. I challenge that because I have seen, I know myself, if I was in a economic position where, no matter how hard I worked, I wasn't gonna make it. I'd be pretty demotivated myself. Right, I don't think it's a lack of motivation on a lot of people's part to want to work. It's more of like show me a path where I can actually succeed. And I think right in somewhere in there is kind of like the golden thread that we have to pull on to be able to recruit people to our industry, because we have to show them look, this is not just your next low-end job. This is a true career with a future for you, with high demand, therefore high wages. Somewhere in there we've gotta get that message to those young people who are feeling lost, who are feeling a little hopeless, who don't think that there's an opportunity for them because they miss the university boat or they're stuck in what they feel is a dead-end job.

Melissa Petersmann: 28:23

Yep Well, and what I've touched on a couple of times in my social media is guys, you don't have to go to college to do this, we don't.

Jamie Irvine: 28:33

Translation you don't need to accrue $100,000 in debt.

Melissa Petersmann: 28:37

And if you wanna go to college, john Deere shops will pay you to go to John Deere school and then pay you for tools. There are so many opportunities in this industry. Even if you wanted to get professional training, let's say you didn't wanna just throw yourself to the wolves and start as an apprentice in a shop and pray to God, you make it. Let's say you do wanna go to a college. There are so many, especially in John Deere, because that's where my specialty is. That's what I know. There are so many opportunities. You know how many kids we had in all the shops I've worked in that were sponsored by our dealership, where their schooling was paid for and their tools were paid for and all they had to do was work for that dealership for two years.

Jamie Irvine: 29:21

And there's similar programs in the truck world too, for whether it's Cummins or it's a Pack, our program, you know there's a Volvo Mac program, I believe as well. So, and I think we're also seeing the independent service channel starting to embrace the need to train people and be more involved in their development, because you know they're just having such a hard time finding people as well. So well, I'm excited to hear the podcast. When is the podcast officially dropping? Is it going to be the?

Melissa Petersmann: 29:48

podcast overhaul. It's supposed to be early December. I have like four. In the bank On the last one right now that I have on a hard drive that I'm working on trying to get to them for their editing people, but it's supposed to be early December sometimes.

Jamie Irvine: 30:04

So hopefully early December definitely in 2023, you're going to be able to listen to Melissa on her podcast overhaul and if people want to link with you. I know you're on a lot of different social platforms, but I think our audience follows us quite a bit on LinkedIn, so we're just going to make sure that we include your LinkedIn link in the show notes. It'll also come up on the screen right now in the video version of this and please, you know HDPR audience go reach out to Melissa, follow what she's doing. The work that she's doing is very important. Melissa, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today and share your thoughts. I've really enjoyed our conversation.

Melissa Petersmann: 30:40

Yeah, this was an awesome podcast. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Jamie Irvine: 30:49

Thank you so much for listening to this week's replay episode. We really appreciate your ongoing support. If you enjoy what you're listening to right now or what you're watching, make sure that you head over to heavydutypartsreportcom. Hit the follow button and you will sign up to a weekly email where you get one weekly email a week so you never miss out on any content. Also, if you're listening to your podcast player of choice, hit that follow button. Give us a review if you can, and if you like to watch the video version, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel. Thank you again for all of your support. We're looking forward to 2024. We've got new content, we've got an updated format and we've got some extra exciting things to share with you. So come on back in 2024. And, as always, be heavy duty.