Everything You Need to Rebuild an Engine from a Single Source

Episode 298: We’re exploring the latest changes in diesel engine rebuilding. We'll be talking with John Douglas, President of MAHLE Aftermarket North America, and Felipe Fequer from the MAHLE North America Division about the shift from aluminum to steel pistons for better efficiency and power. We'll cover the details of this technology and discuss how battery-electric vehicles are shaping the future of heavy vehicles.

Then we'll dive deeper into the complexities of rebuilding heavy-duty diesel engines. We'll discuss the importance of technical support and training as technology evolves and tackle the challenges of new technologies and emission controls. We'll also look at the crucial role of independent service channels in the trucking industry and how MAHLE manages different aspects of its business. This engaging talk will deepen your knowledge of diesel engine rebuilding.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:39

You're listening to the Heavy Duty Parts Report. I'm your host, Jamie Irvin, and this is the place where we have conversations that empower heavy duty people.

Speaker 2: 0:51

John Douglas, president of Mali. Aftermarket North America.

Speaker 1: 0:54

So we're here at Apex 23. We're in Las Vegas and we're at the Mali booth and we're going to talk about rebuilding diesel engines today. John, thanks so much for coming on the show and taking some time out of your busy day. You got a booth that's full of people right now.

Speaker 2: 1:10

Absolutely. It's always good to come to Apex and see all of our partners every year and we put on a really good show and it's great to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:18

So let's talk about rebuilding diesel engines. What's changing? If we talk about kind of the trend line like when I started in the business, it was the older CAD engines, 3406c, that kind of thing that was the most common prolific engine. Engine platforms have changed a lot. Technology has changed a lot. So when you think about rebuilding diesel engines, how has the trends changed over time along with all of that change to the engine platform?

Speaker 2: 1:47

Well, going back that far, you probably came in when pistons were aluminum. So they were aluminum, but, as just like any part of our business, there's always a drive for more power, better efficiency and better emissions. So the next step, moving from an aluminum piston, was to go to a ferrithar piston, which was a forged steel crown mated to an aluminum skirt held by the pin. This allowed higher peak cylinder pressures, higher temperatures that the piston could withstand to be able to meet higher or just better emission standards. Then, shortly after that, the emission standards increased even further and pistons became all steel.

Speaker 2: 2:27

And what most people don't realize, you think about a steel piston. Well, that's going to be heavy, but a monother, which is a single piece steel piston, is actually about 30% lighter than the steel and aluminum combination. So when it comes to rebuilding, there's only a few manufacturers that can make this type of steel pistons with all of the features and benefits that you find on a molly piston. We're the OE manufacturer for all major platforms and we've got that research and development to produce that innovation, to be able to meet those emission standards and those power requirements that the customers want.

Speaker 1: 3:01

So I started my career rebuilding pneumatic controls and as a rebuilder you get to see all the failure analysis and you get to start to understand what you need to change to bring this thing either back to OE spec or make it perform even better. What has happened over the last few years from that perspective? That molly has then taken those things that they've learned and helped their customers to be more successful rebuilding engines?

Speaker 2: 3:29

Well, exactly those failure analysis are very valuable in understanding what can we do better and you really see real world conditions, because you can only think of so many things to do on a dyno and it just doesn't simulate the real world all the time. So again, whether it's dimensional features on a steel piston, whether it's the materials or even bearings, the Cluedite engine bearings we've developed new materials to meet these expectations. Whether it's a million miles or some manufacturers promote, but it's again, it's material properties, it's dimensions, it's heat treatment properties. All of this goes in to really to make an innovative product.

Speaker 1: 4:10

Where do you think engines are going to have to go to meet the next hurdle of emission standards?

Speaker 2: 4:16

That's a tough one, you know. We've already seen where we're reliant upon, whether it be EGR Cooled Engines or the Eurea applications. So it's really hard to say. But I can assure you there are tremendous amounts of activities taking place to get us to new levels, to get you to new levels.

Speaker 1: 4:36

Well, there's only a few years between now and those standards, whatever they actually will be in the end. We'll have to wait and see. So, when it comes to the product that you provide on the independent side, the aftermarket side what kind of support levels do you provide the people who are buying your product and rebuilding engines? How do you go about supporting the independent side of the business?

Speaker 2: 4:58

Well, aside from, I guess probably the best way is offering our heavy duty engine kits, which have all of the parts it takes to do the job, but we also offer training. We have online training. We want to inform our customer or our customer's customer, you know anything that they might need to know for a successful rebuild.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Yeah, that makes sense. Education is so important. Thanks. What's one thing that you wish every rebuilder would know? Or what's that one thing that you just wanna emphasize so that anybody who's listening right now you make sure they hear this one thing that you know they need to know.

Speaker 2: 5:34

Well, I guess I was in the pistol manufacturing business with Mali before I came to the aftermarket and one of the things that always struck me was, if there are a lot of copy products out there, but you can only copy what you think to measure, and even if you were measuring whether it be profiles or ovalities, then you have to make it. Mali actually has a division that builds our own equipment, because we machine features that are not available on commercially made equipment. So knowing, hey, it's not just the diameter, it's what's that ovality, what's that form profile. Knowing that, hey, all of this technology and development that went into the make, the OE part, we're bringing that to the aftermarket.

Speaker 1: 6:22

When we think about the future. You've already mentioned emissions. We've talked about how that impacts engine platforms. What other things do you think are likely to occur in the future when it comes to engine platforms?

Speaker 2: 6:33

Well, that's a great question and something I'm excited about. We hear all of this talk about e-mobility and that's really gonna be a challenge in the heavy vehicle industry. But I was elated when I was in Germany back in June to see that in our R&D department we had taken a major manufacturer all call our diesel engine and converted it to a spark ignited hydrogen engine. So for me, this is a huge step in the longevity of internal combustion engines.

Speaker 1: 7:03

Yeah, I absolutely agree, and I thought for a very long time that there is a place for BEV absolutely certain vocations, but we're gonna need more than that to reach some of the goals that are coming. So that's exciting. You'll come back on the show and tell us more when you can.

Speaker 2: 7:18

When I can? Yes, sir, when you can.

Speaker 1: 7:19

All right sounds good. Thank you so much for taking a few minutes to talk with me. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 7:23

Thank you. Hello, my name is Felipe Fecker. I'm the head of Product Management for Power 10 and Mechatronics for the Mali North America Division.

Speaker 1: 7:33

Felipe nice to talk to you. Nice to meet you.

Speaker 3: 7:36

Thanks for the time.

Speaker 1: 7:37

Yeah, well, thank you. I mean you got a busy booth here right and we're just talking to. John, and there's lots happening. We're at Apex in Las Vegas, we're talking about rebuilding diesel engines, and there's a lot to talk about that's true. So first of all, let's talk a little bit about how your company is organized to go to market. So how do you get the products that you're manufacturing for heavy duty diesel engine rebuilds into the hands of the rebuilders?

Speaker 3: 8:03

So our channel is basically the traditional channel of distribution through the whole distributors in our farm America. So that includes Mexico too. Okay, Not only US. And what about Canada? I'm from Canada.

Speaker 1: 8:16

Yeah, of course Canada is part of that equation, 100%.

Speaker 3: 8:21

And of course, we always try to be very close to those customers, offering them their full support, always to provide alternatives for them so they can help the end customers. And one thing that we eat is becoming more and more important to our organizations is the support that the fleets are needing. So what kind of technical assistance we can provide and of course, also the new technologies and the products that the market is requiring.

Speaker 1: 8:47

So I think that is one thing that we have in our heart to go ahead, yeah and when I was selling heavy duty parts, I was a manufacturer, worked for a manufacturer, but also worked for distributors, and one of the best things that you could do is bring a manufacturer out into the field, supporting that fleet, talking to them directly, allowing the fleet to give them real world feedback. That's important for the manufacturer right.

Speaker 3: 9:09

And I think that is one very strong part of the Mali business overall in the whole globe to have that is strong technical support. We have a very strong group, we have a very strong team, we found a lot of knowledge and of course now we need to expand that and let that information and then transfer that knowledge to the end users so they can do their job better. So what helps everybody in the whole process?

Speaker 1: 9:33

And one of the things that has been a real challenge on the aftermarket side is how much equipment is changing. So this is putting a great need for that education side, so that you can learn how to fix this equipment You've never seen before.

Speaker 3: 9:50

You've never seen before. That is right. So we have a very strong online platform with a lot of training that is available to any end user that you guys can access through our website. So that is, that is strong. But of course, that face to face interaction after COVID of thanks. God it's over, but we are.

Speaker 1: 10:09

We are able. Can we just forget that like wipe it for our recovery? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: 10:13

So we offer a very strong online platform for training that is available to an end user or anyone that is interested in learning a little bit more about our products but also have that technical, in depth training, but also, of course, the face to face interactions. It's extremely important to have that opportunity to visit the fleets, to visit the distributors and offer that support. That is something that we need to do more and more.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah, and one of the things that's happened is we have seen consolidation of engine platforms globally. But what are you doing to support a rebuilder who then, you know, one day is rebuilding a relatively newer engine and then, all of a sudden, the next day, they've got to rebuild an engine that is from an older platform. So how do you provide them that complete support?

Speaker 3: 10:58

And I would say that is probably the strongest part of the aftermarket that we have. We offer the full portfolio of products, from very old applications, I would say, to the newest ones. So that is the, again, our main point to our customers. We want to be the last mainstream when you talk about internal combustion engines. So as far as there is demand on the market you're going to be there. It doesn't really matter for what kind of engine it. So we have, like those older applications that we have a full catalog, a full offer.

Speaker 3: 11:32

That and the globalization of the platforms that is coming of course. We are into that already. We can give you the example of the Detroit diesel 13,. The Trot diesel 15. That is a global platform right that is being used both in Europe and off America. We are into that already. But of course we cannot forget about the help that the customers need with their older applications. So we continue to get to carry that in our offer. We are not getting away from it because, again, our philosophy it's going to be the last main saving, no matter what All right.

Speaker 1: 12:04

Well, you can count on Molly to be there and you can count on my new friend, felipe. Thank you very much for being on the Heavy Duty Parts Report. So glad to have you here, felipe, thank you Appreciate to you.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Thanks for the opportunity. We're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. We'll be right back. This episode of the Heavy Duty Parts Report is brought to you by Find it Parts, your ultimate destination for heavy duty truck and trailer parts. Discover a vast range of parts at finditpartscom. Don't spend hours a day looking for parts. Instead, visit finditpartscom and get them right away.

Speaker 4: 12:37

So we wanted to talk a little bit more about this huge shift that's happening in engine platforms. It's happened over the last couple of decades. Jamie was there, I was not, so let's get a little bit of wisdom from you, jamie. How have engine platforms changed in the last 20 years?

Speaker 1: 12:55

Well, in the past there were more engine manufacturers and over the last 20, 25 years things have consolidated quite a bit. So there's really only three or four engine manufacturers now. And as those engine platforms or manufacturers rather have consolidated, it doesn't necessarily mean that engines have gotten easier to work on. In fact, because of technology changes, because of emissions control and things like that, the engines themselves have become much more complex over the mechanical days. So when I sold parts, you could grab a wrench, you could make a quick repair. I saw guys do things like listen to the engine with the wrench and be able to hear which cylinder wasn't firing properly or where there was something broken in the engine. Those days of the mechanical and having that knowledge has been replaced by people who need to be very proficient with diagnostic tools and who are able to work on these engines and troubleshoot engines not just the engines themselves but all the upstream and downstream issues. So things have gotten more complex. There's less manufacturers and that's really how things have changed over the last 20, 25 years.

Speaker 4: 14:13

Yeah, I mean we're hearing that to make any engine repair it's like you need a clean room or like an operating room or something, because these repairs are so complex. There are tight tolerances. I mean fuel injectors. The nozzles are what? Like three microns across, and Each time that you need to get an engine repair I mean on a heavy duty truck this bill can run you $50,000, $80,000. I mean it's wild.

Speaker 1: 14:43

Yeah, it's depending on if you're doing an in-frame or if you're doing a complete engine replacement, and and I know that even back in, let's say, 2015, 2016, 2017 there were a lot of People who rebuilt engines who were dropping out. You know, rebuilders were consolidating as well, and there was just less of them because things were getting more complex. And then, to your point, the engine repair is such a huge dollar amount. If something goes wrong and there's a warranty, the liability for the rebuilder is very, very High. So this has been a huge opportunity, though, for those that continue to specialize in rebuilding engines and, as some of these rebuilders have dropped out, there's more market share available to them.

Speaker 4: 15:27

Yeah, okay, so let's talk about the perspective from a part store. So we've heard that repair shops and part stores They've had to rely on multiple suppliers. So, like especially during COVID, we saw in LinkedIn one guy was managing 80 different vendors at a time and you know, usually you if you need a new part, you go and buy it from an OEM. You need a part for an older vehicle, you have to go to the aftermarket. But how is Molly different?

Speaker 1: 16:02

So when I started in heavy-duty parts all those years ago, 25 years ago there was clearer lines between the OEM tier one suppliers buying from the dealerships and Buying aftermarket. You know you, just there was very kind of clear lines between the two. But things have really changed over the last 25 years and so you do see more tier one manufacturers who have strong Aftermarket programs because they're trying to capture the business of that second and third owner. But you've also seen aftermarket manufacturers and suppliers really up their game on products. So the whole landscape has shifted. Even today there's not that many tier ones that do a really great job on both sides of the equation. Right, they have a strong tier one manufacturing sector that takes care of the OEMs and they have a really great support for the aftermarket. I think everybody who is in that game and tries to do both there's there's significant challenges. One, for example, is you have to silo those two Groups of people working on either side of your business, because in order to work with tier ones, you can't have your aftermarket people releasing data that only the tier ones are supposed to have, only the OEMs are supposed to have. So even just from a data perspective, it's a challenge to run both of these businesses at the same time. Molly seems to have done a really good job of this. Not only do they manufacture engine components Original equipment, tier one but they've moved into this heavy-duty aftermarket space as well and they are supporting the rebuilders at a level with things like training and support and information to be able to help them not only do the consolidated engine platforms in equipment that's operating the newer equipment, but also to be able to supply the wider range of older engines that might still be operating out there for owners, or if maybe it's in a construction or agricultural vocation, then sometimes that equipment is still running 20, 25, 30 years later. So Molly seems to have done a really good job of balancing both sides of this business.

Speaker 1: 18:17

It was really great to spend time with Molly at their booth at Apex. I really enjoyed getting to know them and we're really looking forward to working with them on an ongoing basis and understanding more about what they do for the heavy-duty aftermarket. In the years that I was selling on the aftermarket side and I stopped selling parts back in let's say it was 2019. So it's been a few years since I sold parts, but 2016, 17, 18, 19, I never really heard Molly's name being mentioned. I heard other companies that have been on this show that are really well known in the aftermarket space, but Molly really wasn't one of them. So it is good to see the moves that they're making to provide additional support to the independent service channel because, as we know, I have a very strong feelings about that right. The independent service channel, the trucking industry, is the back bone of society, really the independent side. If we didn't have that, we just wouldn't have a trucking industry that is as strong and robust as it is today.

Speaker 4: 19:15

Absolutely, and thank you, jamie. I think I understand a lot more about the difference between OEM and aftermarket. Thanks, okay.

Speaker 1: 19:24

Well, this brings our episode to a conclusion. We've really enjoyed sharing these interviews from Apex. We're going to be going to a lot of trade shows coming up in 2024. We're going to continue to share these great conversations with you. If you haven't had a chance, why don't head over to heavydutypartsreportcom and subscribe to the show? Hit that follow button, sign up to our weekly email. You get one email a week from us and you just make sure that you don't miss any of the great content that we put out, and you can get the show wherever you get your podcast or on YouTube, you can watch it as well. So make sure you hit that follow or subscribe button. Thank you very much for listening and, as always, be heavy duty.